Right on, teachers! Those of you who know me, know that I would be there with you if I still lived in Illinois.
My greatest wonder is how you all helped elect a president with the same kind of erroneus thinking. I hope and pray that you do some serious thinking about that, too.
C. Manis

While I agree that politicians did steal teachers' pension money and that was totally wrong, pushing that shortfall onto the taxpayer is also wrong. Where they're going to get the money they stole is beyond me, but the taxpayer cannot afford to assume responsibility for it. Pushing it onto the school districts just means they will raise property taxes (without a referendum, by the way). People are strapped now. Those idiots in office better come up with a better plan, because people are leaving the state in droves because of activity like this.

You made your sacrifices albright. A school year is 1060 some hours. For everybody else it's 2080. And no, I don't think you have it coming. You inform the administators 4 years in advance that you plan on taking your pension and they give you "BUMPS" in salary every year so as to give you a much larger pension than you have earned. This should be investigated and every bump you received removed and your pensions adjusted to where they should honestly be. This should put the pensions close to black ink. Also once you reach 55 you get a 3% cola every year thereafter. I think that should be removed and your cola's adjusted to inflation like everybody else who has one.
Let's start with these ideas and after that we will start talking about getting into the taxpayers pockets.

Madigan has been in charge for over forty years. He has received the various state unions support throughout his years of leadership. His leadership has managed this state into bankruptcy. Don't the state unions bare some responsibility by supporting a leader who have put this state in a situation where it can't pay its bills?

Dear Butch,

A school year is 1060 hours by your math. So come on in and teach high school with me, and tell me if my 1060 hours feels like your 2080. I'm guessing it will feel like a lot more.

And your math is fuzzy, by the way: My school day is 7 hours and 20 minutes. Include the 30 minutes I'm here before school preparing for my day and the 30 I spend after school (on a good day) doing other things related to my work, and you've got 8 hours and 20 minutes. Add in grading, and you can give me a conservative 9 hour work day. I get about 13 weeks off a year (and this, I would never even CONSIDER complaining about), which means I work 39 weeks x 45 hours a week. Grand total: 1755 hours. Add in stuff I get paid extra for (working sporting events, teaching summer school, organizing and running a club...), and my hours reach 2000 a year. I'm guessing there are some incredibly lazy teachers in your school district who work 500 a year. I have no problem with removing those teachers. But don't pretend FOR A SECOND that I work fewer hours just because you have a calculator.

People are really hot about teacher pensions, and very few of the actual facts are generally known. Fact #1: all teachers pay for their pensions and insurance. It is part of their total compensation no matter how it is packaged (you can say you make $50,000 and you pay your pension/insurance or you make $30,000 and your pension/insurance is paid by the district…the numbers are the same, period). Fact #2: teachers are not eligible for their full social security benefit, even if they have paid in all their quarters – that was taken away long ago and the present system was put into force. Fact #3: teachers and school districts have never missed a retirement payment to the state… underfunding of teacher pension fund by the State over the years totals $15 billion dollars, which has now resulted in over $43 billion in unfunded liability. Fact #3: teachers are paid based on their educational preparation and experience…for those who are all worked up about teachers retiring at 55 and the "bumps" – please know that was instituted by the state in order to get the highest paid teachers out and hire brand new teachers in at a much lower salary…does anybody really think that teaching an extra 12 years at top salary is really going to save anybody any money??? That will cost the taxpayers MILLIONS. All this was promised by the state, written into law - and now they want to change their minds because they "borrowed" teacher retirement funds and can't pay it back. Fact.

@Butch: you are misinformed about the "bump.". Not every school district offered this. It was up to each school board. Also you only get the 3% if you retire not when you are 55. I retired at 66 with no "bump." When I taught I worked much longer than 2080 hours. I taught English. Try grading 150 essays quickly. Better yet, try teaching for one day and you will be amazed at what you learn about a very stressful profession.

Fact #1 - Fact #4 should follow Fact#3 - Hope you have a sense of humor Russ!!! Serious point to make is that the government has made promises and commitments to WAY TO MANY people, organizations and projects to possibly keep them all. Our only hope of that smart people prioritize and evaluate the problem fairly and with an eye towards the future, though it seems that we continue to think we can live on credit forever with no consequence. As long as politicians believe they can get elected/reelected on promises and payback, we will have these issues.

I agree that this is a bad situation. The state has done it to themselves, and they need to fix it with a creative solution. Throwing it back at taxpayers and districts is not the way. Instead of all the protests maybe the teachers and their unions can come up with some good ideas. I know a lot of teachers and there are a rare few who can complain about their compensation in comparison with other fields. The insurance benefits alone puts them in the 'lucky' category. And I am sure it is different at the high school level...but I live next to an elementary school and most of the teachers (and admin) roll in right before school starts and rarely is the parking lot not empty within 15 minutes of the end.

when i got into teaching i couldnt care less what retirement packages were, etc. i knew i was going into something i cared about and enjoyed, all for 22, 000 a year! fast forward 22 years, because downstate used our retirement fund as a personal piggy bank, teachers who have cared about your kids all these years are being blasted as the bad guys, the tribune is the worst at this. i have personally told my daughter and nieces not to even think about going into education. trust me, keep up the teacher as the bad guy routine and in the next generation you will not see our brightest most inteliigent going into the profession, then see where we are at! like i tell kids thinking about a career ,dont do what i did (teaching) do something that is respected and your career/livelihoood doesnt depend on some test scores of 15 year olds! what comes into the education profession down the road, because of all the mandates, retirement reductions, lack of parental support, lack of administrative support will lead to our grandkids receiving what will be the worst education in the history of this state.

The actual fault of pension short comings are the fault of State and local government! For year after year after year they failed to put the matching funds into the pension plans while the workers put their share into the plans! Also the State and local government borrow money from the pension plans and never pay it back! Thus causing pension failures and not the unions fault at all! As for downstate Police and Fire pension plans the State does not contribute to it all and have no say so or interest in the plans!

I don't think we should lash out at the teachers. For the most part, they work very hard and are very passionate about their work. Yes, there are some bad apples and thanks to the unions and tenure, we are forced to deal with teachers we cannot get rid of. The real blame falls on Speaker Madigan, Gov. Blago and all of the Democrats who negotiated with the unions and bargained away the State's yearly pension obligation. They were making back room deals to get what they wanted with no concern for what would happen down the road. If I were a teacher, I would be out of my head crazy mad at the unions who were supposed to represent me and look out for my best interest. Time to turn your anger on the perpetrators of the crime.

Lisa S.

Just because the parking lot is empty does not mean teachers still do not work...many of us have family responsibilities that we must leave to attend to since at least for me, my family comes first! Watch those teachers leaving every day and see how many of them are carrying tote bags and crates full of papers and projects to grade. Many teachers get work done late at night when their family responsibilities are taken care of.

I support the teachers 100% ! When are all politicians and political officer holders going to change their pension plans first! They sit on their asses making more money than teachers , Police and Firemen! and their pension plans pay them more and in a shorter time for less years of service and make the big pensions! When they change their pension plans first, then come talk to us about teacher , Police and Fire Pensions!

Looks like all PR arm of the union has been busy telling people that the state is 'stealing' their money.

The actual law says something different though;
The pension system sets 'expected' goals for the growth of its pension plan. When these expected goals fall short(because they are unsustainable), the state is required by law to make up the difference.

This is where the 'state is not paying' idea is based from. The union is twisting it to shift the blame to politicians, because lets be honest it's easy to convince people that politicians are at fault.

In 2010, the union lowered its expected rate to 8.5%, while it was only getting 3.4% in reality. Overnight, the state became responsible for over half of the contributions because it is law that the state make up the difference, and that totaled in the hundreds of millions of dollars just by the union changing its expectations.

The union is on a tear to write letters to the editor in hundreds of papers around the state to pass off this half-truth. And since the pension system is complex, it can be difficult for the average person to read all the fine details. The union is counting on this and using this to fool the taxpayers.

Every time, the distraction seems to come up to focus on the politicians retirement plans. Nobody who uses this distraction actually posts the numbers in a dollar amount this would total. Probably because the numbers are so small it would destroy their argument before they even started it.

Example Cicero politicians steal 30 million from Cicero Fire pension and only paid back 12 million! Why arent they paying it all back? All pension plans before the recession were 75-100% funded! The plans roll with the economy!

Teachers, policeman, fireman, soldier are considered heros in our world until the bill comes to due to give them a living wage and a decent retirement. Illinios is a windfall state, so as a teacher you can not collect social security and a pension. A 401K has never been an option. Therefore, as teachers work decades in a low paying profession, educate 1000's of children, can not collect on a spouses benefits, the state aims to take away their pensions. As for the extreme salaries, that is a joke. People complain that a teacher who makes 70K year with 2 master degrees and 20 years experience is overpaid. Yet, a CEO in the U.S. has an average compensation of 5.4 million. (CHICAGO TRIBUNE MAY 2012). Governor Blago was a senator for 6 years and is entitled to a 60K year pension for life. Yes, I do make more than minimum wage. I need the money to pay back all of my student loans.
Stop blaming teachers for ruining the economic health of this state and country.

We as tax payers pay for teachers to "teach" our children! Teachers need to worry about their retirement by funding their own 401K's etc. The insurance benefits let alone add to their cost of salary. I am all for taking the unions out of the picture. The right to work states like Indiana get it. Our taxes are high enough!

Teachers are the unsung heros and the underdogs. They work all day and work into the night. No, they don't rescue people from burning buildings or stop bullets but they are the foundation for our children. Just because they don't carry an ax or a gun, it doesn't mean they don't deserve respect. The teachers are not the problem and constantly insulting teachers and jeopardizing their livelihood is counterproductive for everyone. It is time to look at who took allocated funds out of the political cookie jar and stop blaming the bakers.

If it weren't for the Police and Fire we wouldn't have protection! If it weren't for Teachers we wouldn't be educated! I think part of their pay back is a pension! I pay my taxes too and have no problem paying for heir pensions! If you want to blame anyone! Blame the politicans, State and local government!

Sheila Raddatz I agree with you! The state and local government took money from our cookie jars and left us crumbs and will not put any cookies back! What a bunch of cookie monsters and they don't complain about their lucrative pensions!

Always seem to have the hands out when they want money and have their hands in their pockets when it is needed. In the real business world you do as your employer says and dont forget you have the right to leave. Unlike the business world, we cant get rid of those underperforming ones.

Same goes for the private sector! Look at all the big CEO's that screw up companies and get huge buy outs and benefits totaling million and millions! Just look at the auto industry! I've seen and met a lot of jerks working in the private sector and they keep their jobs as a result of office politics!

How much in pension salary do you think the average teacher , Police or Firemen earn?

Whos cares, they chose the profession. Dont like it dont be a part of it. And in regards to fireman, seriously like we needed that beautiful new firehouse. The real fireman are downtown risking their lives, all credits go to the emt's, they save lifes in the burbs

They reason they choose those professional is because they are brave and not like a lot of people like you are chicken and little babies to do that kind of work! I see to many idiots that sit behind a warm desk and safe environment and make 30,40 or 50,000 more than a police or firemen! So get real! As far as the firehouse they deserve them as they spend 24 hours there! What do you think they should have ? Barns like the old days!

But, if they chose the profession based on low pay and a pension and people lobby to take it away...then what? What caliber of an employee will you get when you expect a lot of education with no reward? We are not talking about retail positions with HS diplomas here. We are talking about educated professionals with many credit hours and degrees behind them.

John, nice response. For your information I am 44 served in the Marine Corps and make a heela of a lot more than 50K over a policemans salary. My motivation for my success is because of eachers calling me a loser when I was younger so obviously I am a little jaded. I still feel we should be able to get rid of the non performers bu we can't. John keep going on the insults they make for a fun read.

I hear a lot of comparisons to CEO's of major corporations and what they earn. That's apples to oranges, lets compare to the average middle class working stiff. Almost everyone has to get a masters nowadays to get a job so lets toss that out. Now, how many of those middle class working stiffs get a pension? How many actually have a company contribution to their 401K? Guess what, those of us who did put our money into those 401Ks over the past 30 years lost a lot of money! So why shouldn't you teachers be entitled to the same setback? We can blame the government all we want but the fact is the state is broke (as in poor and in the literal sense). We can't blame the current politicians alone because the wheels have been slowly coming off for years and years. Let's quit shedding those tears about teacher because we are all feeling the pain. Suck it up already.

Mario do you realize many many ex military become either a Police or fireman! Why is that?
By the way do you deserve to make that much more money than Police and Fireman or even a teacher? Please tell us what you do and let us judge?

And then we have Drew Peterson sitting in jail collecting over $72,000 a year in taxpayer money for his pension. Even if he's found guilty, he will continue to collect the pension (plus cost of living~ funny because there is no cost to live in prison) until he dies.

11:15 am on Thursday, May 24, 2012
Example Cicero politicians steal 30 million from Cicero Fire pension and only paid back 12 million! Why arent they paying it all back? All pension plans before the recession were 75-100% funded! The plans roll with the economy!

By the way Mario I respect you and anyone that seved in the military including my father WWII . But I also put the Police and fireman in the same category as military and as heroes!

Article XIV requires that Illinois voters be asked at least every 20 years if they desire a constitutional convention.[7] In 2008, the measure was also defeated by a wide margin,[9] 1,493,203 votes for and 3,062,724 against from a total of 5,539,172 votes cast. 983,245 voters chose neither option.[10] Pensions that are part of the Illinois constitution can't be changed for another sixteen years! Every twenty years is a convention and the last in 2008!

To answer a previous question, the average pension for a teacher in IL for 2011 was $46,452.

I discredit everything Tim writes because he believes that the pension system is run by a union. Which union would that be, Tim? His whole premise is preposterous and his sources are dubious. As a retired teacher I certainly wish I was getting $67,000 a year! TRS keeps all teachers, active and retired, well informed about their investments. They are not and never have been risky. I paid into my pension. I was promised by our Illinois Constitution
that I would receive it. I am sorry people lost on 401K's. However, I struggled on a small salary in a stressful job for years in return for a decent pension upon retirement. I will be 80 years old next month and now I have to worry about this? Perhaps I can save the state some money by just dying sooner rather than later.

I Was Just Thinkin' Where is all the Money Going? In my household we are accountable for every dime........

Tim,In reply to your comment,I'm not a teacher (said so in reply),so I do not get a pension. You evidently assume too many things.
You probably could not handle working as a teacher. Every volunteer that does come into the school is amazed at what the staff does and has to put up with.
You say you pay for your own retirement. What is your occupation? The public sector evidently never uses your services,product or pays you a penny. Because if they do,they are helping you pay for your retirement.
I do not have children in the public school,do you now or in the past? I'm helping to pay for their education and I do not compalin about that fact.
Maybe,you should become a teacher. You could set everyone straight.

www.illinoisloop.org/salary

So if a husband and wife both teaching in a good district sit around in summer to realize that when they both retire from there 9 month a year job that pays them 100k each they will retire with about 160,000 a year...now show me a normal husband and wife that put only 9% of there pay in a 401k that will get that sort of return.Its not so much the teachers pay that is upsetting it the administrators in there 40's and 50's already making well over 100k each how is someone worth that?Cut the administrators pay and hire more teachers that actual do something.I do believe there are a lot of good teachers but I think 65 to 80k should be the most they get paid.especially when you figure the pension your going to get.I know theirs lots of teachers that get way under paid but I'm talking about the good districts with high taxes.I don't mean to offend anyone but use your head when figuring these administrators pay

Tim,
You keep saying a $65,000+ pension. Please show us the data where you're getting this from.

I understand the difference between "mean" and "average" but I'd like to see the raw numbers that you are using to get to the $65,000 figure you keep throwing around.

When you use that amount, are you talking pension check or total benefits?

Half the teachers quit within 5 years because of the demands, the low pay and the ridicule. I wonder what the studies show after this initial glut of retirees hit....

Hello everyone ! I don't see anyone complaining that their tax dollars that they paid year after year after year for pension plans was not placed into the plans by the State or their local community! Why are the tax payeers just complaining about the unions, start knocking on the doors of the State or your town government and ask what they did with the money meant for pension plans that was collected by your tax dollars! Thats were the problem starts!

Here's the blame for the pension failures! The dam politicians!

http://media.apps.chicagotribune.com/pensions/index.html

They (the politicians) did the same thing with social security. Took the money out of the cookie jar and threw in IOU's. Now both the pensions and social security are trying to cash in the IOU's.

Its that simple......if the state had funded the pensions a little each year like they should have instead of writing the IOU's, we wouldn't have this problem. But just as they are doing now with the federal debt they are just kicking the can down the road for our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren to pay.

Every time I read about how cushy and luxurious the life of a teacher is, I wonder why everyone isn't trying to become one.

Just like a teacher! I don't see anyone here trying to become a Police or Fireman! ! All people know how to do here is to rip them a new a-- hole and preach that they don't anything or deserve the salaries they get!

Tim,
Is there a reason that you haven't posted the link(s) for the data that you used to conclude that the average or mean pension is over $65,000?

you might want to read about all the nice loans to the Stephens groups in Rosemont, IL...... research those loans

I would love to have retired after 30 years received 75% of what my average salary was for the last 3 years then being young enough to find another job worked for another 10 years and receive a pension from another group. Then fully retire and have same income as if I were working with increases to my pension every year. But I was not smart enough to think of this when I was younger. My own fault but was happy in the job I had

Tim, the only thing I'd like to add and have you remember is that teachers are state employees. Teachers pay something like 9.75% of their salary to TRS every paycheck for those 34-39 years. Teachers depend on TRS to make wise investments. The problem is that the State agreed to give state employees, not just teachers, guaranteed benefit pensions. The fault lies with the State, not the teachers. I don't know what the State is going to do, but I still don't see what teachers have done to deserve the blame that lots of people ascribe to them for the financial mess in Springfield.

I suppose an even sweeter pension deal might be had by a State of Illinois politician.

Let’s say are lucky enough to get elected to a state representative position, then you can contribute 11.5 percent of your $68000 annual salary and after just two 2-year terms in office you are vested into a lucrative state retirement program.

You would have paid-in only about $16000 total, but would be eligible to receive a pension of 12 percent of your salary, along with 3 percent increases if retiring after age 60!

And that pension payout increases to 27 percent of salary after eight years of in office, 45 percent after 12 years of service and finally the maximum 85 percent after 20 years!!

I don’t know any private sector job that would fund someone’s retirement like that after just four years of work. (I also doubt any self-employed person would have such a successful 401k.)

This is just an example of the General Assembly Retirement System of Illinois, and why we are in such a predicament financially. So, when we are passing the blame around let’s not forget the politicians.